MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
A French court has indicted tech billionaire Pavel Durov on charges that he allowed a wide range of crimes to flourish on the messaging platform Telegram.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
This is a case of interest to anybody who uses social media and of special interest if you happen to be one of the billionaires who own social media platforms. Durov is co-founder of this service. It's an app you download on your phone. You can send private encrypted messages or talk on public channels. He's not accused of committing crimes himself but of running the platform where crimes took place, and then of failing to cooperate with authorities. The charges followed Durov's surprise arrest, and they add to the debate about free speech and the internet.
MARTIN: Reporter Rebecca Rosman has been following the case. We caught up with her in London. Good morning, Rebecca.
REBECCA ROSMAN: Good morning.
MARTIN: Before we get into these charges, can you just tell us a little bit more about Telegram and its CEO?
ROSMAN: So the CEO Pavel Durov is someone who has long been seen as an anti-establishment figure. He was born in the then-Soviet Union in the mid-1980s. His first big social media company was actually a site called VK, which is Russia's answer to Facebook. He famously left Russia in 2014, though, after refusing to comply with the Kremlin's demands that he turn over information about the site's users. This is what prompted him to start Telegram, which he now runs from Dubai. And while it's less popular in the U.S., it has nearly a billion users worldwide, and it is especially popular in countries like Brazil, India, Russia and Ukraine. One thing that users find particularly attractive about the platform is its limited oversight of what users can say or do. But this has also made the app a favorite tool for far-right extremist groups, terrorist organizations and criminal gangs.
MARTIN: Is that what led to these charges?
ROSMAN: Yeah, more or less. So the Paris prosecutor's office announced a pretty wide range of charges yesterday evening. But they're mostly tied to allegations that Durov was complicit in the spread of all kinds of illegal activities on Telegram, so things like the spread of child sexual abuse materials, drug trafficking and money laundering. French investigators say Durov failed to cooperate with them or provide information that would've helped them shut down these illegal operations. And he's now under judicial supervision and is banned from leaving French territory.
He also had to post a bond of $5.5 million and will be required to report to French police twice a week while he's under investigation. And if he's convicted, he could face up to a decade in prison. And I should say, these charges are groundbreaking in the sense that this would certainly appear to be the harshest action any government has taken against a social media executive to date.
MARTIN: OK, France is not the only place where people are worried that these platforms are being used to commit crimes, and also to spoke social division, which has actually led to violence in many places. But there are also the free speech absolutists who consider rule-making a form of censorship. And I take it we're hearing a lot of outrage from some of these folks, especially from other tech moguls.
ROSMAN: Right. And what these tech moguls say is that it is simply not their job to be policing these platforms, and that forcing them to do so actually sets a dangerous precedent for free speech on the internet. A number of well-known individuals have spoken out against Durov's arrest. You have people like Elon Musk, who posted the hashtag #FreePavel on his platform X. But the French government has defended its actions, with even French President Emmanuel Macron himself taking to X earlier this week to write his country was, quote, "deeply committed to freedom of expression" but that "in a state governed by the rule of law," things need to be "upheld within a legal framework, whether that's in real life or on social media."
MARTIN: That is reporter Rebecca Rosman in London. Rebecca, thank you.
ROSMAN: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
MARTIN: Former President Donald Trump shared a TikTok video, including footage that raises questions about whether it violates federal law against using military cemeteries for campaign purposes.
INSKEEP: That social media post is how Trump has used a video and images taken amid gravesites at Arlington National Cemetery. Trump visited there on Monday, and as NPR has reported, Trump campaign staffers had a physical altercation with an Arlington National Cemetery staffer who tried to reinforce the restriction. The campaign is seeking to downplay the incident.
MARTIN: NPR's Stephen Fowler is with us with an update and also to talk about the political implications of this incident. Good morning, Stephen.
STEPHEN FOWLER, BYLINE: Good morning.
MARTIN: So Trump was at Arlington Monday for a remembrance of the third anniversary of a suicide bombing in Afghanistan in which 13 U.S. service members were killed, and he posted a video about it online. So just remind us of what the controversy is about.
FOWLER: There's three key things to note about this story, first broken by our colleague Quil Lawrence. One, a pair of Trump campaign staffers had a verbal and physical altercation with an Arlington staffer who tried to stop them from filming in a part of the cemetery known as Section 60 because it's against the rules. Two, federal law also prevents the use of cemeteries as backgrounds or props for political campaigns. Three, the Trump campaign did it anyways with pictures and now a TikTok video showing Trump and some family members of the deceased posing at headstones.
MARTIN: And what are those family members saying?
FOWLER: Well, in a statement from the Gold Star family members that invited Trump, they say they gave approval for his videographer and photographer to document the emotional moment. It's also important to note the family members who invited Trump also spoke at the Republican National Convention, like Cheryl Juels, who's the aunt of Sergeant Nicole Gee, one of the 13 service members killed in the attack at Abbey Gate. They used that time onstage to bash President Biden and vocally endorse Trump.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
CHERYL JUELS: Donald Trump loves this country and will never forget the sacrifice and bravery of our service members. Join us in putting him back in the White House.
FOWLER: So, Michel, even though they were OK with the cameras, the families don't have the power to suspend the rules. Also, NPR has learned the family of a Green Beret who died by suicide whose headstone's visible in those pictures and videos did not give permission to be included, which highlights one reason for the ban on campaigning in such a sensitive environment.
MARTIN: So what has been the Trump campaign's response to the information, the reporting about this altercation, other than putting out a video that does seem to be, you know, flouting these rules?
FOWLER: There's been some nastiness in the response. The Trump campaign spokesman said the Arlington representative was, quote, "clearly suffering from a mental health episode." And on the campaign trail yesterday, Trump vice presidential nominee JD Vance said Vice President Kamala Harris could, quote, "go to hell" over the Afghanistan withdrawal and blamed reporters for the controversy.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
JD VANCE: You guys in the media, you're acting like Donald Trump filmed a TV commercial at a gravesite. He was there providing emotional support to a lot of brave Americans who lost loved ones they never should've lost, and there happened to be a camera there. And somebody gave him permission to have that camera there.
FOWLER: He did, in fact, film a commercial there, sort of, which he then put on TikTok.
MARTIN: So obviously, we're in the thick of this 2024 presidential campaign. Do we have a sense of how voters might be seeing this or what this adds to our picture of Trump as a candidate and as a once, and possibly future, commander in chief?
FOWLER: Well, Trump's also been accused of calling dead soldiers, quote, "suckers and losers," stoked controversy for saying civilian Medal of Freedom recipients are much better than those who receive the Medal of Honor. And so all of these things would be a big deal for any other candidate, but this is a perfect encapsulation of life under Trump.
MARTIN: That is NPR's Stephen Fowler. Stephen, thank you.
FOWLER: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
MARTIN: It is illegal for noncitizens to vote in federal elections. And there's no credible evidence that it happens in significant numbers.
INSKEEP: That has not stopped some politicians from talking as if noncitizens vote or could vote. Republicans talk of them voting for Democrats as they advocate what they describe as ballot security measures.
MARTIN: Joining us now is NPR's Jude Joffe-Block. She's been covering issues around democracy and how false narratives affect the country. Jude, welcome. Thanks for joining us.
JUDE JOFFE-BLOCK, BYLINE: Hello.
MARTIN: Why are we hearing so many claims about noncitizens voting this year?
JOFFE-BLOCK: So Trump has a history of claiming that elections are rigged against him. In 2020 he raised fears around voting by mail, and this year, he's seized on record crossings by migrants to suggest it's part of a plot to steal the election. And this rhetoric is concerning to a lot of people, like Jasleen Singh. She's an attorney at the nonprofit Brennan Center for Justice, which advocates for voting rights.
JASLEEN SINGH: It's just another tactic to undermine this election and sow doubt in the election, and sort of to set up the ability for election deniers to call into question the election results after November 2024.
MARTIN: So, Jude, what sort of impact does this rhetoric have in the real world?
JOFFE-BLOCK: So first, there's already lots of guardrails that states use to make sure that people are lawfully voting. But at least four states with Republican leadership are announcing new processes and efforts to remove noncitizens from the voter rolls. And, of course, maintaining voter rolls is a critical election safeguard. The key is how you do it. So for one, federal law says it can't happen within 90 days of an election, and you have to be really careful to not mistakenly target eligible voters. But in my reporting, I found out these efforts are sweeping up U.S. citizens who are eligible to vote.
MARTIN: Say more about that. What happened to these voters?
JOFFE-BLOCK: One of them is William Pritchett (ph). He's 59. He was born and raised in Alabama, has always been a U.S. citizen. He's one of 3,200 people in Alabama who are getting letters from election officials saying they could be noncitizens, so their voter registration is now inactive. The letter says if you are a U.S. citizen and eligible to vote, you should re-register. It's not really clear at this point how Pritchett got flagged but it shows these methods are prone to error. Pritchett quickly updated his registration, but he thinks the whole effort is misguided.
WILLIAM PRITCHETT: It doesn't surprise me at all, considering the narrative that's out there right now where they're basically trying to convince people that the election will be decided by noncitizens, you know, that are voting or whatever, which, in my opinion, is a false narrative.
JOFFE-BLOCK: I also talked to several naturalized citizens in Tennessee who got similar letters earlier this summer that felt to them like voter intimidation. And in Texas, a rumor spread by a Fox Business host that was debunked about noncitizens supposedly registering to vote led to the state's attorney general launching a criminal investigation into voter registration groups.
MARTIN: So, Jude, where do things stand as we get closer to the election?
JOFFE-BLOCK: Well, advocacy groups are paying close attention. They've asked Tennessee and Alabama to halt these efforts, saying they violate federal law. And Tennessee later said people who got letters would not be purged from the voter rolls. Alabama's secretary of state told NPR anyone who got a letter and is a citizen can still vote on Election Day if they show proof. But he's also said he sent the names on this list over to the state's attorney general for investigation. And there's a chilling effect that comes from all of this that could prompt eligible citizens to opt out of participating.
MARTIN: That is NPR's Jude Joffe-Block. Jude, thank you.
JOFFE-BLOCK: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
